# Are standards related non-libraries in scope?

**URL:** <https://discourse.bemanproject.org/t/are-standards-related-non-libraries-in-scope/141>\
**Category:** Beman Project Development\
**Created:** [July 1, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/t/are-standards-related-non-libraries-in-scope/141 "2024-07-01T23:41:39Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![bcraig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@bcraig](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/u/bcraig)\
**Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/t/are-standards-related-non-libraries-in-scope/141/1 "2024-07-01T23:41:39Z")

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I’ve got a few library-related standards projects I’m somewhat involved in, and I’m not sure if they are appropriate for the Beman project. “No” is a fine answer for each of these, but I can see some value in each.

1. Test harness for a freestanding library ([GitHub - ben-craig/kernel\_test\_harness: kernel\_test\_harness](https://github.com/ben-craig/kernel_test_harness)). I currently point this at the MSSTL, make some changes, and then run the libc++ tests as a way of verifying whether some facility is freestanding of not. It’s not something that a typical user is interested in, but it can be of use to the standards community (with some polishing at least).
2. Borrow-checking discussions and library additions ([Sean Baxter: Safe C++](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q1awoAwBgQ)). If this gets going, there will be a need to author library additions, but those library additions will rely on compiler features that aren’t present in released compilers. There could also be a lot of value in having public paper discourse on this.
3. Policy papers (example: “P3085R2 `noexcept` policy for SD-9 (throws nothing)”). Maybe the Beman discourse could be an additional place for expert commentary and review?

As stated before, “no” is a reasonable answer here. I’ve heard it said that it’s not a real project until you know what’s out of scope. But maybe some of these are in scope and could help seed the system.

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**Author:** ![dsankel](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bemanproject.org/dsankel/32/5_2.png) [@dsankel](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/u/dsankel)\
**Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:08am UTC](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/t/are-standards-related-non-libraries-in-scope/141/2 "2024-07-02T03:08:13Z")

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Hey @bcraig, welcome!

I’m curious what others think, but my initial reaction is that topics that could lead to Beman libraries (#2) or impact them (#3) are in scope.

Can you elaborate your thinking on #1? What are your goals for this repository?

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**Author:** ![bcraig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@bcraig](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/u/bcraig)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/t/are-standards-related-non-libraries-in-scope/141/3 "2024-07-03T00:43:52Z")

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My thinking on #1 is that it could be an aid in tooling. Similar to how we want it to be easy for people to spin up a blank project that follows all the best user space practices, it would also be nice to have some way to test things intended for freestanding in a freestanding environment.

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**Author:** ![dsankel](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bemanproject.org/dsankel/32/5_2.png) [@dsankel](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/u/dsankel)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 6:52am UTC](https://discourse.bemanproject.org/t/are-standards-related-non-libraries-in-scope/141/4 "2024-07-03T06:52:29Z")

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What do you think about making our example/template:

1. Have a CMake preset for compiling in freestanding mode, and
2. Have an example test driver that verifies freestanding compatibility?